Ignorant question: What is the point of removing systemd while keeping elogind?

[Thorsten Glaser]

On Sat, 6 Jan 2024, Matthias Geiger wrote:

> Unfortunately most programs expect something proving a logind functionality.

“most” programs?

> For instance apt links against libsystemd-dev. This means we either bite the
> bullet and use libelogind0 (actually libsystemd0 on a sid system), or we can't
> use that (even procps links against libsystemd-dev). You need something to
> provide this functionality (i.e. ABI calls) or those programs won't work. Mark
> has done some great work towards getting consolekit2 into debian so that it
> might become a drop-in replacement later on. At the moment using elogind (even
> if it comes form systemd) is our best option (imho). In the long run I hope we
> can use consolekit2 (haven't tested it yet tbh). On my openRC system I use

You seem to be conflating libsystemd0 presence with logind functionality.

The former can be easily satisfied by, well, libsystemd0 presence. It
basically contains a bunch of functions that are used in the systemd case
but not else, for example logging to journal if present (else syslog),
socket activation things (else normal startup), etc. and of course the
systemd communication (which is obviously not used).

Then, there are some programs which ostensibly require logind. I have
heard GNOME is one of them, but I have yet to see any.

I tried elogind, but it inacceptably changed system functionality, so
now I use an empty package that…

Package: logind-considered-harmful
Provides: logind
Conflicts: logind, default-logind, elogind, libpam-elogind, libpam-systemd

… and I have yet to see anything breaking. So I think the logind
“requirement” is vastly overstated. Sure, some packages think they
require it…

$ wtf -y logind
  - Dependencies on “logind [no version]”:
|libpolkit-qt-1-1:amd64 (= 0.112.0-6tarent1.)
|libpolkit-qt5-1-1:amd64 (= 0.113.0-1)
|policykit-1 (= 0.105-31+deb11u1)
  - Recommends on “logind [no version]”:
|openssh-server (= 1:8.4p1-5+deb11u2)
|xserver-xorg-core (= 2:1.20.11-1+deb11u6)

… but that does not seem to apply.

> I think at least having those options in debian is worth something

Definitely. But I think not needing them is also worth something.

> Honestly I don't think it'll change that programs like apt link to systemd
> libraries because that would require a major change in the linux ecosystem

But that’s okay? These libraries seem to be mostly inert if systemd
is not used.

bye,
//mirabilos
-- 
15:41⎜<Lo-lan-do:#fusionforge> Somebody write a testsuite for helloworld :-)