Ignorant question: What is the point of removing systemd while keeping elogind?

Matthias Geiger werdahias at riseup.net
Sat Jan 6 17:10:45 GMT 2024

On 06.01.24 16:18, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> In my ignorance, is elogind just a stub for systemd-dependent apps?
> Why not move towards having a working Debian installation that doesn't
> depend on systemd?
> Sorry for the naive and uncultured question.
Unfortunately most programs expect something proving a logind 
functionality. For instance apt links against libsystemd-dev. This means 
we either bite the bullet and use libelogind0 (actually libsystemd0 on a 
sid system), or we can't use that (even procps links against 
libsystemd-dev). You need something to provide this functionality (i.e. 
ABI calls) or those programs won't work. Mark has done some great work 
towards getting consolekit2 into debian so that it might become a 
drop-in replacement later on. At the moment using elogind (even if it 
comes form systemd) is our best option (imho). In the long run I hope we 
can use consolekit2 (haven't tested it yet tbh). On my openRC system I 
use elogind for now.

I think at least having those options in debian is worth something, 
despite some project members being openly hostile about other init systems.

Having a debian installation without anything systemd-related might 
become possible if consolekit2 becomes more adopted and tested. iirc 
it's still missing some functionality to be a full replacement (but I'm 
happy to be wrong here).

Honestly I don't think it'll change that programs like apt link to 
systemd libraries because that would require a major change in the linux 
ecosystem as such and that's not gonna happen. We can try our best to 
guide people to the better side.


Matthias Geiger <werdahias>
Debian Maintainer
"Freiheit ist immer Freiheit des anders Denkenden" -- Rosa Luxemburg

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