Debian Buster release to partially drop non-systemd support

[Thorsten Glaser]

On Tue, 16 Oct 2018, Ian Jackson wrote:

> For the avoidance of any doubt, I am not saying that you will have to
> run a system with elogind or the like.  I definitely want people who
> don't want to, to be able to carry on.

Great, then we’re aligned.

> A big problem is libpam-systemd.  That is needed for
>  * /run/user/UID
>  * the `user session' dbus

Ah, okay.

> The former is actually a good idea, but we don't have an
> implementation of it that isn't in something like elogind - although

Indeed. I have hacked something like this for MirBSD, but
it needs a static list of users at boot time. Perhaps an
independent PAM module for this, since PAM is in the user
login stack already anyway.

Hm. Should I look into writing a PAM module?

Isn’t the user dbus session handled by /etc/X11/Xsession.d/
stuff, anyway? My /etc/X11/Xsession.options on Debian
certainly has “use-session-dbus”, and one appears to be
started with each login (kdm or xrdp not tty or ssh ofc).

> (NB `user session' is supposed to have a longer lifetime and broader
> scope than `login session'.)

Ah. I guess that answers my question, then.

Which lifetime? “Once started, never automatically stopped”?

> IMO it would be easier to provide these things than to play
> whack-a-mole with the things that depend on them.

Agreed, given that the provider is opt-in or opt-out.

> I think it would be really helpful if we had active sysvinit
> maintenance in Debian.  There is a long backlog of bugs; there's a new
> upstream version which needs packaging.
>
> And it's a really bad look to have systemd people actually doing the
> uploads.

True. I’m willing to help, but I don’t have the bigger picture
of all these integrations. I can code, debug and upload, though.
I’m not so good with bug triaging or end user interaction.

bye,
//mirabilos
-- 
15:41⎜<Lo-lan-do:#fusionforge> Somebody write a testsuite for helloworld :-)