From webstump at ..iark.greenend.org.uk Wed May 13 15:12:56 2026 Return-path: To: JNugent73 at ..il.com Subject: Re: Re: Palestine Action Defendants "could" be srntenced as terrorists References: <10tvurt$26t02$1@dont-email.me> In-Reply-To: Reply-To: matthewv+ulmtestmod at ..riolis.greenend.org.uk Errors-To: webstump+ulm-bounces at ..iark.greenend.org.uk X-Webstump-Event: [17786674326952] reject offtopic Message-Id: From: webstump+ulm-bounces at ..iark.greenend.org.uk Date: Wed, 13 May 2026 15:12:56 +0100 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 The post that you submitted to uk.legal.moderated has been rejected by a moderator. This appears to the moderator to be off-topic for uk.legal.moderated or has insufficient law-related material. The group charter and moderation policy can be found at https://uklegal.weebly.com/ Disputed moderation decisions can be discussed in the newsgroup uk.net.news.moderation ============================================ Full text of your message follows > From webstump@chiark.greenend.org.uk Wed May 13 11:17:12 2026 > Return-path: > Envelope-to: webstump+?@slimy.greenend.org.uk > Authentication-Results: mailhub-cam-d.mythic-beasts.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=uni-berlin.de; dkim=pass header.d=uni-berlin.de header.s=fub01 header.a=rsa-sha256 > X-STUMP-Warning-0: Next header (DKIM-Signature) truncated! > X-STUMP-Warning-1: Next header (DKIM-Signature) truncated! > X-STUMP-Warning-2: Next header (DKIM-Signature) truncated! > X-STUMP-Warning-3: Next header (DKIM-Signature) truncated! > DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=uni-berlin.de; s=fub01; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:Mime-Version:References:Message-ID:Date:Subject:From:To:From: Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:In-Reply-To: References; bh=NTS33C43LasqOEcA6FMezLti6Y9v6XqpgEaxE0HbA88=; t=1778667426; x=1779272226; b=hStlL8+9xgg1ioS4Popbp2FSGXbDEAPCL9s1HZnQZjnYS36nbRNdC1eAsshSJ 1IU9d0jy5l8xYd > From: JNugent > Newsgroups: uk.legal.moderated > Subject: Re: Palestine Action Defendants "could" be srntenced as terrorists > Date: Wed, 13 May 2026 11:17:04 +0100 > Organization: Home User > Message-ID: > References: <10tvurt$26t02$1@dont-email.me> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Orig-X-Trace: individual.net gXDWDWOYztW6oHDGSyGLZAcrt3kwVNebBfzAYICSDp2b3lX/2O > Cancel-Lock: sha1:T7rcP35YEFNFLz2KfTOtxd0UU1o= sha256:0Ok0PZvTOpwiI/CFCh/otyJEAkCwdhuRsgtE4bsQZHQ= > User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:22.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/22.0 > X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 260512-4, 5/12/2026), Outbound message > X-Antivirus-Status: Clean > X-Originating-IP: 130.133.4.5 > X-ZEDAT-Hint: RO > X-Mythic-Source-External: YES > X-BlackCat-Spam-Score: 68 > X-Spam-Status: No, score=6.8 > Delivered-To: usenet-uk-legal-moderated@usenet.org.uk > X-BlackCat-To: usenet-uk-legal-moderated@usenet.org.uk > X-Mythic-Originator: uid-1081-on-lynx.mythic-beasts.com > X-STUMP-Warning-4: Unfolded headers Received: Received: Received: Received: Authentication-Results: Received: DKIM-Signature: DKIM-Signature: DKIM-Signature: DKIM-Signature: > > On 12/05/2026 08:25 PM, billy bookcase wrote: > > While there are a lot of ifs, buts, maybes and possibly nots, > > on the face of it this appears to have the potential for > > a gross injustice > > > > Presumably the reasoning was, that if the possibility of a > > terrorist connection being attached by the Judge post verdict, > > were revealed beforehand, this might have deterred the more > > conscience ridden jurors from bringing in those guilty verdicts, > > which in fact they did. > > > > However > > > > Its very convenient IMO that there are not separate offences > > as in murder/manslaughter; whereby jurors could decide for themselves. > > > > Such that rather than HH Mr Justice Johnson's ruling (A) being > > withheld from the jury, the arguments concerning the two offences > > terrorist/not terrorist could have been put to the jury and > > reflected in the judge's summing up. With the jury themselves thus > > being allowed to decide whether in their judgement there was a > > terrorist connection or not. > > > > quote: > > > > Four Palestine Action activists convicted? after a retrial over > > a violent protest at an Israeli arms manufacturer's UK site face > > being sentenced as terrorists despite the jury not being told this. > > > > In an unprecedented move in a criminal damage case, the judge, > > Mr Justice Johnson, ruled before the first trial that there appeared > > to be a "terrorist connection" to the offences - even though the protest > > took place before Palestine Action was proscribed - > > > > *but this could not be told to the jury. The finding and the restriction > > on telling the jury continued for the retrial. > > > > [...] > > > > Jurors subsequently convicted Charlotte Head, 29, Samuel Corner, > > 23, Leona Kamio, 30, and Fatema Rajwani, 21, of criminal damage over > > the 2024 break-in at the Elbit Systems UK site near Bristol. > > > > The terrorism connection ruling can now be revealed after reporting > > restrictions were lifted on Tuesday. At sentencing, a separate > > determination will be made based on the criminal standard of proof > > of whether there was a terrorism connection. > > > > If the court finds there was, it would mean the four would have to > > serve their whole sentence in prison, unless a parole board approved > > their release after completing two-thirds of their sentence. Non-terrorist > > prisoners usually serve 40% of their sentence > > > > Upon release, the defendants could be recorded as terrorists for life, > > meaning any new device, bank account, email address or relationship > > would have to be registered with the police for the rest of their life > > and they could be sent back to prison if they do not comply or make a mistake. > > > > (A) Ruling on the appearance of a terrorist connection in March 2025, > > Johnson said: "On s1(1)(b) of the TA [Terrorism Act] 2000, [the defence > > barrister] Rajiv Menon KC and others strongly argued that influencing > > government was not the purpose of the action - the purpose of the action > > was to damage weapons and save lives - I accept that this was one motivating > > factor - but that does not mean that another purpose was not to damage > > property to be made available to the Israeli government and thereby > > influence the Israeli government." > > > > :unquote > > > > https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/may/12/palestine-action-activists-elbit-protest-terrorist-connection-ruling > > > > > > Possibly a far more damaging argument IMO might have been that the > > Palestine Action defendants were attempting to influence the UK Govt > > in respect of its policy of readily issuing licences to arms > > manufacturers, supplying Foreign Govts. > > > > But just so long as it never seems to have occurred to HH Justice > > Johnson, who would want to argue ? > > > > Which "had" the relevant offences been made available, IMO could and > > should have been put to the jury, for them to decide. In respect > > of attempting to "influence" the Israeli Govt that is; who > > doubtless will have arranged alternative sources of supply. > > And so would probably fail. > > > > > > Meanwhile leading counsel for the Defence Rajiv Menon KC, > > and HH Justice Johnson have form. The former having been > > unsuccessfully=fully charged with Contempt of Court by the > > latter. Again apparently unprecedented > > > > > > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgp5k0ex1zo > > I don't know about you. Perhaps you're some sort of Induana Jones > character who laughs at danger, but someone swinging a sledgehammer at > them would terrorise most people. > > Not you though, obviously. > > You're too 'ard to be frightened, let alone terrorised. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEfWu6wfyjzX88oocanSrwpvmn4x4FAmoEhugACgkQnSrwpvmn 4x7azAf/ai3yC0i5oE4ejj/tAgBHRFijXSFd/6rL1MXMJ20DOiSD6ZLAwGuA9/Tm xx53O/NyoRKyUEdDJAxz6XlRow0MpWkOzMUXCflZSdJsVDAmZxZ5S09/WVrtgd4l N2xABc4yVlsaSq5Wkf04MCHXhdurYsmzQf79+aqmLLBEn+PuU8gurpdaDNS9a46i 8GYw/7H8i304VvXfncL/6ReERhvPvkMFIGeipUmKHuM6lDiK+FI2iCD+bY3N3AOm ccth6qOn4Up+GJ8GFhGb+rsvc4SIlbmHqN4DeWgNfqVRFoxy6xG0sK8YJOVNyZ73 PYpCre+dYHmQae1/1bUXsHAggB2fKw== =xjtw -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----