From webstump at ..iark.greenend.org.uk Sat May 24 09:53:46 2025 Return-path: To: hex at ..seen.ac.am Subject: Re: Re: Interesting citizenship Q. References: <1009q0k$bqfu$2@dont-email.me> <100a5e2$dcon$2@dont-email.me> <100d3do$1au6$1@gal.iecc.com> <100d4i9$fl49$4@dont-email.me> <100f5vc$1jmmf$2@dont-email.me> <100frdm$1ngs9$8@dont-email.me> <100hr0e$27cpe$1@dont-email.me> <100hv99$1j4em$3@dont-email.me> <100pg8l$3kofa$4@dont-email.me> In-Reply-To: Reply-To: matthewv+ulmtestmod at ..riolis.greenend.org.uk Errors-To: webstump+ulm-bounces at ..iark.greenend.org.uk X-Webstump-Event: [17480698631285] reject notnew Message-Id: From: webstump+ulm-bounces at ..iark.greenend.org.uk Date: Sat, 24 May 2025 09:53:45 +0100 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 The post that you submitted to uk.legal.moderated has been rejected by a moderator. This post contains insufficient new material. Similar points have been made already in this discussion, which is in danger of becoming too repetitive. The group charter and moderation policy can be found at https://uklegal.weebly.com/ Disputed moderation decisions can be discussed in the newsgroup uk.net.news.moderation ============================================ Full text of your message follows > From webstump@chiark.greenend.org.uk Sat May 24 07:57:43 2025 > Return-path: > Envelope-to: webstump+?@slimy.greenend.org.uk > Received-SPF: pass (mailhub-cam-d.mythic-beasts.com: domain of uni-berlin.de designates 130.133.4.89 as permitted sender) client-ip=130.133.4.89; envelope-from=mod-submit@uni-berlin.de; helo=outpost5.zedat.fu-berlin.de; > X-STUMP-Warning-0: Next header (DKIM-Signature) truncated! > X-STUMP-Warning-1: Next header (DKIM-Signature) truncated! > X-STUMP-Warning-2: Next header (DKIM-Signature) truncated! > X-STUMP-Warning-3: Next header (DKIM-Signature) truncated! > DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=uni-berlin.de; s=fub01; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:Mime-Version:References:Message-ID:Date:Subject:From:To:Sender: Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help: List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=1xgVVOD7k0P/eCgdgHNKqxqVnfzbMsNCzd9k5Xn6dD8=; t=1748069859; x=1748674659; b=OaH+SyV1rRIavbB > From: Norman Wells > Newsgroups: uk.legal.moderated > Subject: Re: Interesting citizenship Q. > Date: Sat, 24 May 2025 07:57:36 +0100 > Message-ID: > References: <1009q0k$bqfu$2@dont-email.me> > <100a5e2$dcon$2@dont-email.me> > <100d3do$1au6$1@gal.iecc.com> <100d4i9$fl49$4@dont-email.me> > <100f5vc$1jmmf$2@dont-email.me> > <100frdm$1ngs9$8@dont-email.me> > <100hr0e$27cpe$1@dont-email.me> > <100hv99$1j4em$3@dont-email.me> > > > <100pg8l$3kofa$4@dont-email.me> > > > > > > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > X-Orig-X-Trace: individual.net XyjR1XVI9vzP+4OV0GIjOwiuZpbuTQ7Fe7ChQKDgqMejGdiyoP > Cancel-Lock: sha1:QK5mfhRYX2w+5UlS200AqQg3qE0= sha256:ybKX4Ty4zHa/eOxdWDIFNVhESWdvV0TMKTv9yip0ytA= > User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird > Content-Language: en-GB > X-Originating-IP: 130.133.4.5 > X-ZEDAT-Hint: RO > X-Mythic-Source-External: YES > X-BlackCat-Spam-Score: 29 > X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.9 > Delivered-To: usenet-uk-legal-moderated@usenet.org.uk > X-BlackCat-To: usenet-uk-legal-moderated@usenet.org.uk > X-Mythic-Originator: uid-1081-on-lynx.mythic-beasts.com > X-STUMP-Warning-4: Unfolded headers Received: Received: Received: Received: Received: DKIM-Signature: DKIM-Signature: DKIM-Signature: DKIM-Signature: > > On 24/05/2025 00:55, Tim Jackson wrote: > > On Fri, 23 May 2025 21:38:26 +0100, Norman Wells wrote... > >> > >> On 23/05/2025 20:46, Tim Jackson wrote: > >>> On Fri, 23 May 2025 14:53:35 +0100, Norman Wells wrote... > >>> > >>>>> As I've posted elsewhere in this thread, and previously, to obtain a > >>>>> passport, Ms Begum needs a Bangladesh National ID Card.  As she wasn't > >>>>> resident in Bangladesh at the time it would ordinarily have been issued > >>>>> automatically, she will need to apply for it. > >>>> > >>>> I think that can wait until she gets there. It's not a requirement for > >>>> entry for any of its citizens, nor can it be. > >>> > >>> Ms Begum, at the Bangladeshi airport or border post: "Please let me in, > >>> I'm a Bangladeshi citizen." > >>> > >>> Bangladeshi immigration officer: "Prove it. Do you have a Bangladeshi > >>> passport?" > >>> > >>> Begum: "No, you won't give me one." > >> > >> You don't know that. > >> > >>> Officer: "Do you have a national ID card?" > >>> > >>> Begum: "No, you won't give me one". > >> > >> You don't know that either. > > > > Quote (Court of Appeal judgement, paragraph 102): > > > > Until her 21st birthday in 2021 she had Bangladeshi > > citizenship by descent but there was no realistic > > possibility of her being able or permitted to enter > > that country. The appendix to the ministerial > > submission made this clear [....] > > But it's not a matter for a minister just to say she can't come in. > It's a legal matter, and therefore a question for the courts to decide > in accordance with the law. > > And the courts would have to agree, on a simple reading of the > Bangladesh Citizenship Act 1951, that she was, even after the age of 21, > a Bangladeshi citizen, and therefore *entitled* to be admitted or > Bangladesh would be making her stateless in breach of international > conventions to which her country was a signatory. > > > Despite knowing that she had nowhere else to go, > > Everyone has a fundamental right to be admitted to the country of his > citizenship. And, presumably, to a national ID card, but not > necessarily to a passport, which is in the gift of the government. > > > in all practicality, the Secretary of State nonetheless > > decided that to deprive her of her British citizenship > > on grounds that to do so was conducive to the public > > good and in the interests of national security. He took > > that matter into account. The decision cannot be impugned > > on the basis that he did not do so." > > Indeed. What is the point you are making? > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEfWu6wfyjzX88oocanSrwpvmn4x4FAmgxiRkACgkQnSrwpvmn 4x7dAAf6A09aUyjGRDsphqMNMsaQ+d17X9fHXnf8ZDcWOpXNj6bWuYacHw00vl4m RAbyoS5chqQfeylSJ2xp4LHP+zx6+4sZp7jzQYW0eTwewqq6G+RgD/GhBKuap9II ZMfLrs0dgqWh58tIl6FtoPmmTIRRC6ZpNTFyA1KKOPjSCAp7J2+Rro9OkFf9jUm8 M5QHn7UECOSqL1GYZxZxQb/78UKYC9pwXDgGj94iKXq3u+aqOEWMA/tOnGML2+6S fgyNm9q18K+KV4NTRGazwfe1IHVzA0wp2/Kf1hRQp/FURGjf31zlgjd0tlZXVZ62 7dhrF0dvMyNbsj3Xw2t8/eSXKwRhFg== =kRG7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----