From webstump at ..iark.greenend.org.uk Thu Aug 08 21:14:52 2024 Return-path: To: hex at ..seen.ac.am Subject: Re: Re: Shamima Begum References: In-Reply-To: Reply-To: matthewv+ulmtestmod at ..riolis.greenend.org.uk Errors-To: webstump+ulm-bounces at ..iark.greenend.org.uk X-Webstump-Event: [172314791725491] reject notnew Message-Id: From: webstump+ulm-bounces at ..iark.greenend.org.uk Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2024 21:14:50 +0100 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 The post that you submitted to uk.legal.moderated has been rejected by a moderator. This post contains insufficient new material. Similar points have been made already in this discussion, which is in danger of becoming too repetitive. The group charter and moderation policy can be found at https://uklegal.weebly.com/ Disputed moderation decisions can be discussed in the newsgroup uk.net.news.moderation ============================================ Full text of your message follows > From webstump@chiark.greenend.org.uk Thu Aug 08 21:11:57 2024 > Return-path: > Envelope-to: webstump+?@slimy.greenend.org.uk > Received-SPF: pass (mailhub-hex-d.mythic-beasts.com: domain of uni-berlin.de designates 130.133.4.89 as permitted sender) client-ip=130.133.4.89; envelope-from=mod-submit@uni-berlin.de; helo=outpost5.zedat.fu-berlin.de; > X-STUMP-Warning-0: Next header (DKIM-Signature) truncated! > X-STUMP-Warning-1: Next header (DKIM-Signature) truncated! > X-STUMP-Warning-2: Next header (DKIM-Signature) truncated! > X-STUMP-Warning-3: Next header (DKIM-Signature) truncated! > DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=uni-berlin.de; s=fub01; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:Mime-Version:References:Message-ID:Date:Subject:From:To:Sender: Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help: List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=APEHiZcZpUaZd+Pb0Z2ZKQjRZ41/M3+//PqjX7jLYIM=; t=1723147913; x=1723752713; b=VBpiMj541NQmZ0T > From: Norman Wells > Newsgroups: uk.legal.moderated > Subject: Re: Shamima Begum > Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 21:11:52 +0100 > Message-ID: > References: > > > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > X-Orig-X-Trace: individual.net ljtNi/Kh89/4EqVu7RBepguZtjjltOfJO8Z8AkHmaGVHcdF5VW > Cancel-Lock: sha1:6bx0EcwZvpZMP5MN4/UYyapWlwc= sha256:pO36+UT+EESpUfXzXmGH6NIWasEUYVE/sE4XjykCUno= > User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird > Content-Language: en-GB > X-Originating-IP: 130.133.4.5 > X-ZEDAT-Hint: RO > X-Mythic-Source-External: YES > X-BlackCat-Spam-Score: 17 > X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.7 > Delivered-To: usenet-uk-legal-moderated@usenet.org.uk > X-BlackCat-To: usenet-uk-legal-moderated@usenet.org.uk > X-Mythic-Originator: uid-1081-on-lynx.mythic-beasts.com > X-STUMP-Warning-4: Unfolded headers Received: Received: Received: Received: Received: DKIM-Signature: DKIM-Signature: DKIM-Signature: DKIM-Signature: > > On 08/08/2024 19:31, The Todal wrote: > > On 08/08/2024 12:32, Norman Wells wrote: > >> On 08/08/2024 10:04, The Todal wrote: > >>> On 07/08/2024 23:16, Norman Wells wrote: > >>>> On 07/08/2024 22:30, The Todal wrote: > >>>>>  From 21st February 2019. > >>>>> > >>>>> Labour MP David Lammy wrote on Twitter: “Stripping individuals of > >>>>> citizenship sets a very dangerous precedent. We should take > >>>>> responsibility for our own citizens and try them for crimes in > >>>>> British courts, not leave them stateless. This is the rule of law.” > >>>>> unquote > >>>> > >>>> That's political nonsense.  She was not left stateless, which we > >>>> couldn't do under international law.  Along with her British > >>>> nationality, she also had Bangladeshi nationality through descent. > >>>> We only deprived her of her British one, as allowed by law. > >>>> > >>>>> However Yvette Cooper said in 2023 that the fate of Shamima Begum > >>>>> was a matter for the courts. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled > >>>>> that Begum has exhausted every appeal other than to the ECHR, > >>>>> presumably Yvette Cooper has a decision to make. No rush. > >>>> > >>>> What decision?  The courts have decided. > >>> > >>> A decent, intelligent Home Secretary is entitled to reverse a > >>> decision made in 2019 by a talentless, ambitious Tory Home Secretary. > >> > >> Section 40 of the British Nationality Act 1981 gives the Home > >> Secretary the right to deprive an individual of British citizenship, > >> as was exercised perfectly properly even to the extent of going > >> through all the prescribed appeal stages. > >> > >> I can see no right given in that Act under which his successors may > >> reverse that decision or give citizenship (back) to anyone. If you > >> can, please identify it. > >> > >> The matter, it seems to me, is solely in the hands of the courts, in > >> which the Home Secretary has no locus to interfere. > >> > >> And all the UK courts have now been exhausted. > >> > >>> All the courts have done is to say that the Home Secretary is > >>> entitled to make these decisions. > >> > >> Which are now irreversible. > > > > As so often happens, you're completely wrong and you're misleading our > > valued readers. > > > > Any Home Secretary can reverse the decision of a previous Home > > Secretary. Norman Law does not apply in the UK. > > The decision was issued. It removed her British citizenship. It has > gone through all the courts here and the decision has been upheld at > every stage. > > I don't think it is open to anyone to rescind it. Unless you can find a > mechanism for doing so in the law, I think it's final. > > Do you think the Home Secretary has the power to declare anyone he likes > to be a British citizen, or only those whose citizenship has previously > been legitimately revoked? > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEfWu6wfyjzX88oocanSrwpvmn4x4FAma1JzoACgkQnSrwpvmn 4x6iVQgAksMgZm/f3iVYK9+AhHwMF2qT46gnI2kkn8UQfZBhW+snHL+iV3kSvBCW ap793RYLJ+qiVaXQz7hcrg/hMrPXxhqiyG4aufHigBbE/qthsMlMd2if8KdWrg6V dtPKUSus76p+7eIhIi9/wlSSuZQ0y33CSfSI8RwJzj3kMNsmixtuSXORGJkMw3X8 NcsM7H6aGoz4EETmODTTdbJS4BZ5RBRCBqqt1vIXjXMMFnLzzHwTlCQ0ous/F1vL 2VgcIYKoHLh3vROTgz/uNYCPAepqysY8qMNRioNlvhkeF/vdkbLAilja+Qaw4Tmo O9FeMVmuZ3+zxa6CkSAwj6amzbbJwA== =s0vZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----