From ff347fa9d4d749498487d93df89557e4427c5e35 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: joy <joy@313b444b-1b9f-4f58-a734-7bb04f332e8d>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:33:08 +0000
Subject: [PATCH] rearranged/updated the mailing lists section

git-svn-id: svn://anonscm.debian.org/ddp/manuals/trunk/developers-reference@2358 313b444b-1b9f-4f58-a734-7bb04f332e8d
---
 common.ent                |  3 ++
 developers-reference.sgml | 75 +++++++++++++++++++--------------------
 2 files changed, 40 insertions(+), 38 deletions(-)

diff --git a/common.ent b/common.ent
index d344e72..3e4e873 100644
--- a/common.ent
+++ b/common.ent
@@ -50,6 +50,7 @@
 <!ENTITY url-debian-lists "http://&www-debian-org;/MailingLists/">
 <!ENTITY url-debian-lists-txt "http://&ftp-debian-org;/debian/doc/mailing-lists.txt">
 <!ENTITY url-debian-lists-subscribe "http://&www-debian-org;/MailingLists/subscribe">
+<!ENTITY url-debian-lists-new "http://&www-debian-org;/MailingLists/HOWTO_start_list">
 <!ENTITY url-lists-archives "http://&lists-host;/">
 <!ENTITY url-bts "http://&www-debian-org;/Bugs/">
 <!ENTITY url-bts-report "&url-bts;Reporting">
@@ -111,6 +112,8 @@
 
 <!ENTITY url-eg-desc-upstream-info "http://&packages-host;/unstable/text/docbook-dsssl.html">
 
+<!ENTITY url-alioth "http://alioth.debian.org/">
+
 <!-- 
      URLs, non-debian
   -->
diff --git a/developers-reference.sgml b/developers-reference.sgml
index a0afa47..601c837 100644
--- a/developers-reference.sgml
+++ b/developers-reference.sgml
@@ -6,7 +6,7 @@
   <!ENTITY % commondata  SYSTEM "common.ent" > %commondata;
 
   <!-- CVS revision of this document -->
-  <!ENTITY cvs-rev "$Revision: 1.212 $">
+  <!ENTITY cvs-rev "$Revision: 1.213 $">
   <!-- if you are translating this document, please notate the CVS
        revision of the developers reference here -->
   <!--
@@ -418,10 +418,29 @@ resources that are available to help you in your maintainer work.
 
       <sect id="mailing-lists">Mailing lists
 	<p>
-The mailing list server is at <tt>&lists-host;</tt>.
+Much of the conversation between Debian developers (and users) is managed
+through a wide array of mailing lists we host at
+<tt><url id="http://&lists-host;/" name="&lists-host;"></tt>.
+To find out more on how to subscribe or unsubscribe, how to post and how not
+to post, where to find old posts and how to search them, how to contact the
+list maintainers and see various other information about the mailing lists,
+please read <url id="&url-debian-lists;">. This section will only cover
+aspects of mailing lists that are of particular interest to developers.
+
+	<sect1 id="mailing-lists-rules">Basic rules for use
 	<p>
-Online archives of mailing lists are available at <url
-id="&url-lists-archives;">.
+When replying to messages on the mailing list, please do not send a
+carbon copy (<tt>CC</tt>) to the original poster unless they explicitly
+request to be copied.  Anyone who posts to a mailing list should read
+it to see the responses.
+	<p>
+Cross-posting (sending the same message to multiple lists) is discouraged.
+As ever on the net, please trim down the quoting of articles you're
+replying to.  In general, please adhere to the usual conventions for
+posting messages.
+	<p>
+Please read the <url name="code of conduct" id="&url-debian-lists;#codeofconduct">
+for more information.
 
 	<sect1 id="core-devel-mailing-lists">Core development mailing lists
 	<p>
@@ -442,40 +461,8 @@ The core Debian mailing lists that developers should use are:
   </item>
 </list>
 	<p>
-There are
-other mailing lists available for a variety of special topics; see
-<url id="&url-debian-lists-subscribe;"> for a list.
-
-	<sect1 id="mailing-lists-subunsub">Subscribing and unsubscribing
-	<p>
-To subscribe to or unsubscribe from any of the Debian mailing lists, email
-<tt>debian-<var>foo</var>-REQUEST@&lists-host;</tt>, where
-<tt>debian-<var>foo</var></tt> is the name of the list, with the word
-<tt>subscribe</tt> in the <em>Subject</em> to subscribe to the list or
-<tt>unsubscribe</tt> to unsubscribe.
-	<p>
-If you prefer to use a web page to subscribe to multiple mailing lists,
-there's one at <url id="&url-debian-lists-subscribe;">.
-	<p>
-You can download the current list of mailing lists and basic usage
-instructions from <url id="&url-debian-lists-txt;">
-or install the <package>doc-debian</package> package and have it
-locally in &file-mail-lists;.
-
-	<sect1 id="mailing-lists-rules">Basic rules for use
-	<p>
-When replying to messages on the mailing list, please do not send a
-carbon copy (<tt>CC</tt>) to the original poster unless they explicitly
-request to be copied.  Anyone who posts to a mailing list should read
-it to see the responses.
-	<p>
-Cross-posting (sending the same message to multiple lists) is discouraged.
-As ever on the net, please trim down the quoting of articles you're
-replying to.  In general, please adhere to the usual conventions for
-posting messages.
-	<p>
-Please read the <url name="code of conduct" id="&url-debian-lists;">
-for more information.
+There are other mailing lists available for a variety of special topics;
+see <url id="http://&lists-host;/"> for a list.
 
 	<sect1 id="mailing-lists-special">Special lists
 	<p>
@@ -494,6 +481,18 @@ for Debian related correspondence such as contacting upstream authors
 about licenses, bugs, etc. or discussing the project with others where it
 might be useful to have the discussion archived somewhere.
 
+	<sect1 id="mailing-lists-new">Requesting new development-related lists
+	<p>
+Before requesting a mailing list that relates to the development of a
+package (or a small group of related packages), please consider if using
+an alias (via a .forward-aliasname file on master.debian.org, which
+translates into a reasonably nice <var>you-aliasname@debian.org</var>
+address) or a self-managed mailing list on
+<url name="Alioth" id="&url-alioth;"> is more appropriate.
+	<p>
+If you decide that a regular mailing list on lists.debian.org is really what
+you want, go ahead and fill in a request, following <url name="the HOWTO"
+id="&url-debian-lists-new;">.
 
       <sect id="irc-channels">IRC channels
 	<p>
-- 
2.30.2