[Uram-rejections] How leaving the EU might affect radio UK amateurs

Tue Jun 28 05:42:57 BST 2016

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 The mod's post was not aimed at anyone in particular, but a steer away from  the politics of the EU exit. Some political comment has been allowed

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============================================ Full text of your message follows
> From webstump at chiark.greenend.org.uk Tue Jun 28 04:42:29 2016
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> From: Brian Reay <no.sp at m.com>
> Newsgroups: uk.radio.amateur.moderated
> Subject: Re: How leaving the EU might affect radio UK amateurs
> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:41:49 -0700
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> On 27/06/2016 11:48, Brian Howie wrote:
> > In message <nkrhfp$lei$1 at dont-email.me>, Brian Reay <no.sp at m.com> writes
> >> On 27/06/2016 03:48, Ian Jackson wrote:
> >>> In message <nkmav2$7l3$2 at dont-email.me>, Brian Reay <no.sp at m.com> writes
> >>>> On 25/06/2016 00:15, Ian Jackson wrote:
> >>>>> In message <nkkboh$129$1 at dont-email.me>, FranK Turner-Smith G3VKI
> >>>>> <g3vKi at turner-smith.uK> writes
> >>>>>> "Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVETHISjackson at g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> >>>>>> news:DmQav+NcYabXFwcu at g3ohx.demon.co.uk...
> >>>>>>> In message <nkjp3j$sdo$1 at dont-email.me>, FranK Turner-Smith G3VKI
> >>>>>>> <g3vKi at turner-smith.uK> writes
> >>>>>>>> Will my HAREC still be valid in EU countries after Brexit?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Why shouldn't it? The HAREC is not an 'EU thing'.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> However, neither your possession of a HAREC, nor any form of amateur
> >>>>>>> licence, authorises you to import anything (even temporarily) into any
> >>>>>>> country - including radio gear. This includes bringing your own
> >>>>>>> equipment back into to the UK from any country that doesn't have the
> >>>>>>> same import tariffs as the UK has for the country that makes the
> >>>>>>> equipment.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> For example, at the moment you can take a £5000 FT-12345 from the UK
> >>>>>>> into France without documentation only because both France and the UK -
> >>>>>>> being part of the EU - have the same import duty for the FT-12345. If
> >>>>>>> you are bringing an FT-12345 into France, it is assumed that the
> >>>>>>> standard EU import duty will already have been paid when it was imported
> >>>>>>> from Japan into the UK. On the way back into the UK, the same applies.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On the other hand, if Britain is no longer in the EU, France will be
> >>>>>>> able to charge you the EU rate of import duty - unless you take the
> >>>>>>> precaution of carrying the correct documentation (ie a carnet) to
> >>>>>>> guarantee that it is only a temporary import, and you will, after the
> >>>>>>> specified period of time, be taking it back home with you.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks Ian, STMBO (G8YCL) and I got HARECS some time ago when we were
> >>>>>> considering moving somewhere warm after we retired. I suppose if
> >>>>>> we were to
> >>>>>> do that now we would have to pay import duty on any rig(s) we took
> >>>>>> with us.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And I suppose all the other stuff you took with you might also be liable
> >>>>> for some sort of import duty - especially if it was new(ish). [I really
> >>>>> have no idea what happens when people move abroad.] No, you're far
> >>>>> better off staying at home, and enjoying the English weather!
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Provided you plan to return it home, or otherwise 'export' it, and it is
> >>>> for personal use, there should be no problem. It is no different to a
> >>>> laptop, iPad, Kindle, etc. all of which I carry on trips to the US,
> >>>> along with my FT817 etc.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've even met other amateurs in customs a couple of times and chatted
> >>>> with them.
> >>>
> >>> When should you declare things to the US customs? I've been looking at
> >>> various websites, and the information varies tremendously. At worst, you
> >>> can only bring in (even temporarily) $100 worth before you are liable
> >>> for tax. At best, there's no real limit!!
> >>>
> >>> It's now a while since I've been to the USA (on occasions carrying a
> >>> laptop). As well as the Visa Waiver form, I recall that all travellers
> >>> get a customs declaration form to complete - but I can't recall if
> >>> there's been a category where I've been supposed to declare anything.
> >>> What should you do if you have with you (say) a £1000 transceiver? I
> >>> guess that if you had to list it on the declaration form, when you hand
> >>> the form to the customs guy, you'll probably get ushered into a side
> >>> room for it to be inspected. [I've had this even when I've had nothing
> >>> to declare.]
> >>>>
> >>>> You are worrying over nothing. I don't even expect to have to stop my
> >>>> 'stocking up' with supplies when we return from France- we save a
> >>>> fortune buying on a range of things (not just wine).
> >>>
> >>> I don't think the problem will be with entering the USA. Instead, it
> >>> could be when entering an EU country. At the moment, you can freely
> >>> carry 'stuff' across EU borders simply because the UK will have had to
> >>> tax your stuff at the agreed EU rate (certainly import duty, and
> >>> probably the same, or very similar, VAT). Some of the tax thus collected
> >>> will have then have been paid by the UK into the EU's 'slush fund'.
> >>
> >>
> >> By the above logic, there is no such agreement with the US (note 'by the
> >> above logic') thus we should need all of the paperwork etc when we
> >> travel there. We don't, at least not for personal equipment in modest
> >> quantities. (A container full for a Dxpetition would be another matter.)
> >>
> >> In fact, people travel the world with personal equipment without carnets
> >> etc, a bit of radio kit is much the same as a laptop etc when it comes
> >> to value etc for customs.
> >>
> >> Having traveled with personal kit while having carnets etc. for
> >> commercial equipment to a variety of places outside of the EU, no
> >> interest has ever been taken in my personal kit.
> >>>
> >>> In the absence of such a system, the EU will want proof that your stuff
> >>> is a temporary import, and that you will be taking it out of the EU (one
> >>> way of proof being an ATA carnet). Unless the UK can negotiate a trade
> >>> deal with the EU (something like Norway's), I do feel that we will all
> >>> live to regret leaving the EU. Of course, the whole present sad affair
> >>> could probably have been avoided if we could simply have negotiate some
> >>> sensible (but not draconian) restriction on migrant labour.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> You are suggesting that the EU countries will impose 'punitive'
> >> conditions due to our deciding to exit. That simply confirms how right
> >> the decision was, we should distance ourselves from such petty nonsense.
> >>
> >>
> > Guys it's straying into political territory  here. Keep it to AR related
> > issues.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Briaa obo  uram moderators
> >
> 
> The post is far more on topic than the 'Just Back' one you are happy 
> with and there certainly is no hidden message.
> 
> Yet more evidence of biased moderation.
> 
> 
> 
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