[Uram-rejections] Twisted pair

Wed Jun 22 00:41:11 BST 2016

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

 Can you tone it down a little, thanks.

The post that you submitted to uk.radio.amateur.moderated has been rejected by a
moderator. 

Your message appears to the moderator to be abusive or hurtful to
another contributor.

The group charter and moderation policy can be found at
  http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/uram/
Disputed moderation decisions can be discussed in the newsgroup
  uk.net.news.moderation

============================================ Full text of your message follows
> From webstump at chiark.greenend.org.uk Wed Jun 22 00:29:50 2016
> Return-path: <webstump at chiark.greenend.org.uk>
> Envelope-to: webstump+?@slimy.greenend.org.uk
> X-Envelope-To: uk-radio-amateur-moderated at usenet.org.uk
> X-Forwarding-To: uk-radio-amateur-moderated at usenet.org.uk
> Delivered-To: forwarding-uk-radio-amateur-moderated at usenet.org.uk
> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at example.com
> To: uk-radio-amateur-moderated at usenet.org.uk
> From: Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex at attglobal.net>
> Newsgroups: uk.radio.amateur.moderated
> Subject: Re: Twisted pair
> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 19:29:39 -0400
> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
> Message-ID: <nkcil4$c06$2 at jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
> References: <nk5kbk$156$1 at dont-email.me>
>  <1mp38cb.wubbsh1bgzzeyN%roger at hayter.org> <nk63ov$f1f$1 at dont-email.me>
>  <nk6ant$69t$1 at jstuckle.eternal-september.org> <nk6svt$7nj$1 at dont-email.me>
>  <1mp40in.19jhr6hxzovayN%roger at hayter.org> <nk999l$gln$1 at dont-email.me>
>  <nk9mda$3lo$1 at jstuckle.eternal-september.org> <nk9oiv$c60$1 at dont-email.me>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101
>  Thunderbird/45.1.1
> X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX19E4ix2NPxFGMUAMMCY/XNFkmstZyGEt61rebiRd8MGIQ==
> Cancel-Lock: sha1:Yh9VZ6FjlDJ+Q54CjvsLY90EheM=
> X-Gradwell-Message-ID: 14190727
> X-Gradwell-MongoId: 5769cde8.299-3144-4
> X-Gradwell-Forwarding-Rule: 1748292
> X-Gradwell-Edge-Server: inbound-edge-4.mail.thdo.gradwell.net
> 
> On 6/20/2016 5:52 PM, mm0fmf wrote:
> > On 20/06/2016 22:15, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> >> On 6/20/2016 1:31 PM, mm0fmf wrote:
> >>> On 19/06/2016 21:30, Roger Hayter wrote:
> >>>> mm0fmf <none at invalid.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 19/06/2016 15:37, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> >>>>>> On 6/19/2016 8:38 AM, mm0fmf wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 19/06/2016 11:50, Roger Hayter wrote:
> >>>>>>>> being a digital system
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> At the level being discussed it's an analog system. Very fast I
> >>>>>>> grant
> >>>>>>> you but the signals on the wires are not digital.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Actually, ethernet is a digital system.  The signal is two levels
> >>>>>> - on
> >>>>>> and off.  Yes, there is some distortion of the signal while
> >>>>>> traveling,
> >>>>>> but it is still a digital signal.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Shame I happen to work for someone who just happens to make Ethernet
> >>>>> PHYs. It's analog at the cable, we employ analog mixed-signal
> >>>>> designers
> >>>>> to develop the insides of PHYs. Elsewhere, when you look at the
> >>>>> signals
> >>>>> passing from the PHY to the MAC and signals from the MAC, they're
> >>>>> digital. Designers just specify whatever standard pin driver is need
> >>>>> from the libraries. But not the cable/PHY.
> >>>>
> >>>> There is no actual distinction between a digital and an analogue
> >>>> signal,
> >>>> the physics is the same.  But when it takes some effort to recover the
> >>>> data intact then analogue design skills certainly come into it.   But
> >>>> you are also correct (looked this up) that there are *not* just two
> >>>> binary levels but five of them in in gigabit ethernet.  Note, five
> >>>> discrete levels, *not* a continuous range of desired values.   And all
> >>>> four pairs in the standard cable are used.  10Gb is something else
> >>>> again.   But it is still a digital signal, just one that needs lots of
> >>>> analogue style care and attention to recover intact.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> Yes Roger. It's not OOK at the high rates and is multi-level.
> >>
> >> Roger is true - at 1GB and above, there are multiple levels involved.
> >> However, these are *discreet levels*.  The signal is still considered
> >> digital.
> >>
> > But hang on Jerry I thought an ethernet signal on a cable has one of two
> > valid values - on or off, one or zero. Now you are saying it's multiple
> > discreet levels.
> > 
> > What is being missed is not whether Ethernet is digital, it is, but the
> > front end of the PHY is a very analog thing and not like the inputs of
> > typical logic systems.
> 
> As I said - *1GB and above*.  Do you even read what you respond to?
> 
> And this is still considered a *digital* signal, because it has discreet
> levels.  Analog has an infinite number of values available.
> 
> -- 
> ==================
> Remove the "x" from my email address
> Jerry Stuckle
> jstucklex at attglobal.net
> ==================
> 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXadCXAAoJEJ0q8Kb5p+MeehoIAL3eIPHUxygydx/f1NdYN8lq
kqLsAdgrRZLDGNNrpOVYwbrNU6WZVickjVl/48WkKIk2xxHf6DRNXlon2n6dSoNb
/Fs8fqjT3kyybCRcufE4OkKf1sNQALMnENJrkyJWOVm2b2SfGpX2RcGfzDJYqQck
NT2xZGxZW/Rj1xdX4JC8hv28chQ0uDY5Ct/lQEW/sVVsW0Dx9kUA8sLEYdE12jqg
aM6hdTCpA5Q84ToroGF+kjCh9u0Nr/8DRUeNOG60o2iRSICL9ZFDq7ZAQLDWcK0B
mOFspdYK+U7WCzkYVrGfyb/d9emLFRxmbgiklMyfOdBzjhIBIdcIkMfP6A7Ggxs=
=AeMl
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----