Card transactions by proxy

Jon Ribbens jon+ukcrypto at
Fri Apr 8 14:36:09 BST 2011

On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 01:02:37PM +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
> In article <20110408114333.GD28020 at>, Jon Ribbens  
> <jon+ukcrypto at> writes
>> They are charged at a rate higher than normal calls. The English word
>> for that is "premium".
> But you have chosen to use that word vexatiously, in this context. Many  
> other words would not have the same effect.

They wouldn't have conveyed my meaning.

>>> which is presumably an artefact of your chosen phone supplier.
>> If there is a mobile provider I can choose which does not charge a
>> premium for 0800 calls, I am not aware of it.
> You've chosen to use a mobile phone.

You might as well say I've "chosen" to use a phone at all, I could
always conduct my entire life by post.

> And see below for a company that doesn't charge a premium(sic) over
> geographic rates.

Sorry, yes, I should have specified contract not PAYG. Interestingly,
I just checked the Virgin Mobile website and they seem to consider it
a secret what types of calls are included in their "minutes"; not even
the detailed T&Cs give any indication what "airtimes minutes" includes.

>> All they need to do is say that 0800 numbers
>> must be charged at no more than geographic rates. That wouldn't
>> require anyone to give up their 0800 numbers.
> That wouldn't work in the general case, because so many people have in  
> effect "free" geographic calls (in a bundle) for their mobile, that  
> there is no marginal revenue to replace whatever you are currently  
> paying per minute.

If I call a geographic number from my mobile, my mobile operator must
pay the geographic landline operator money to terminate the call. If
I call an 0800 number instead, the 0800 operator must pay my mobile
operator money to receive the call. If they can afford to give me
"600 minutes" or whatever to geographic numbers, they can afford to
give *at least that* to 0800 numbers. Unless I'm somehow mistaken?

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