Card transactions by proxy
lists at internetpolicyagency.com
Wed Apr 6 12:59:21 BST 2011
In article <8DgGCF4wDEnNFAgg at perry.co.uk>, Roland Perry
<lists at internetpolicyagency.com> writes
>>Huge numbers of unauthorised DDs have been deducted by utility and
>>other companies in the past few years and none of them have ever had
>>their DD rights removed AFAIK, even when a consumer's complaint has
>I suspect that by "unauthorised" you mean "in commercial dispute with
>an existing customer" (I'll post an example shortly).
True story from about ten years ago:
Orange contract phone £30/month, which usually covered all the calls.
Invited to go to one of their shops to get a "free upgrade" phone.
Checked it really was free, went in, signed some papers, walked out with
Next bill has £100 'upgrade charge' on it.
Contact Orange who eventually agree that it's a mistake. But "can't"
change that month's £130 bill. And they "can't" issue a credit note
against that month's bill, it will be against the following month
(ending with at -£70 to pay, of course, then -£40, -£10, and finally
£20). "Obviously" they also "can't" send me a £100 refund either.
What if I send a cheque for only £30 - "you will be in default and we'll
flag that with credit agencies". And I know that if I contact the credit
agencies they will say that the data belongs to orange and only Orange
can change it. Orange's position will remain that I was £100 in default.
But at least I *could* only pay them £30, if I wanted to, because I paid
by cheque. (I could also sue for the return of the £100, but that would
probably take as long as waiting the 4 months for it to work its way
through the system).
What if it was a Direct Debit? Simple - they'd take the £130.
What if I invoked the DD guarantee? That'd put me in default with Orange
(see above), even if I also sent them a cheque for £30.
As a side issue, would the bank be able to refund me only £100, rather
than the whole £130, and would they be happy that the refund was only an
artefact of a commercial dispute, although in the circumstances it was
genuinely describable as a "mistake"? And who pays any bank charges
potentially incurred by the surprise extra £100 debit?
Meanwhile, when they saw the DD being refunded (and someone has said
that this also cancels the DD arrangement) would Orange switch my phone
off, if their T&C (to some extent understandably) said I had to have a
payment mechanism in place in order to be a customer.
I'd like to think they'd wait until the £100 was used up, but that
doesn't seem very likely.
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