Mastering the Internet

[ukcrypto at chiark.greenend.org.uk]

Quoting Ian Batten <igb@batten.eu.org>:

> Echelon as a thing to keep children awake at night with made some  
> sort  of sense when a large portion of communications went by radio.  
>  Today,  I just don't see it.

Well, quite.  Echelon is X years old, and comes from a time when GCHQ  
said they monitored communications "from DC to Light".

> ``ah, to use the product would be to reveal the conspiracy'', just  
> what is it _for_, then?

Playing devil's advocate: The people listening just listen and  
analyse.  Doing anything with that information is up to other law  
enforcement agencies.  How much did we know about the London bus  
bombers?

> I don't believe that there is currently any significant amount of  
> illegal domestic surveillance, simply because the complexities of  
> keeping it secret and using the product for any purpose render it  
> both impossible and worthless.

The tin-foil-hatters would point to the UK's (unique?) position of  
telephone intercept evidence.  The use of illegal intercepts would be  
the same as legal intercepts.  I'm guessing it doesn't happen because  
i) it doesn't need to, and ii) the people with the capabilities have  
rigorous supervision.

Giving people the capabilities without that level of supervision shows  
a few worrisome uses - local councils using covert video surveillance  
to catch dog owners who don't clean up; organisations routinely asking  
for criminal records checks when a CRB check is not needed.