ID card rollout begins
Mark Lomas
ukcrypto at chiark.greenend.org.uk
Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:09:42 +0100
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2008/9/26 Ian Batten <igb@batten.eu.org>
> [[ ob.crypto: I've not been seeing my own postings to this list. A poke
> around reveals that I'd managed to configure DKIM so that my own server
> couldn't retrieve its own public key, so I was bouncing mail which my server
> had signed. And they say that crypto-enabling of mail systems is easy. ]]
>
>
> On 26 Sep 08, at 0756, Roland Perry wrote:
>
> In article <492CC2D6-7DD0-4AE3-BB1A-35EC475E19D6@batten.eu.org>, Ian
>> Batten <igb@batten.eu.org> writes
>>
>>> It's the Poll Tax, but with no winners.
>>>
>>
>> Although if the cards announced yesterday allowed travel within the EEA
>> (and re-entry to the UK without a passport or landing card), the holders
>> would be "winners" to that extent.
>>
>
> It's not easy to see how, or why, the UK government can issue travel
> documents over its own authority which permit non UK-citizens to travel
> simply on the basis that the holder is a legal resident in the UK. I'm
> pretty sure Schengen free-movement rules apply to citizens, not residents:
> does a US citizen with residence rights in France have automatic right of
> entry into Germany? And if they do, it's hard to think of a more convincing
> reason to ensure that a party that proposed that the UK joins Schengen will
> be committing electoral suicide.
One of the consequences of Schengen is that a US citizen with residence
rights in France can travel to Germany for up to three months, after which
he or she needs a visa.
Here is the European Commission's explanation:
"If your visa is from a country fully applying the Schengen rules, it
automatically allows you to travel to the other Schengen countries as well.
Moreover, if you have a valid residence permit from one of those Schengen
countries, it is equivalent to a visa. You may need a national visa to visit
non-Schengen countries." [by 'non-Schengen countries' they mean the UK and
Ireland]
http://europa.eu/abc/travel/doc/index_en.htm
Mark
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<div dir="ltr"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2008/9/26 Ian Batten <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:igb@batten.eu.org">igb@batten.eu.org</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">[[ ob.crypto: I've not been seeing my own postings to this list. A poke around reveals that I'd managed to configure DKIM so that my own server couldn't retrieve its own public key, so I was bouncing mail which my server had signed. And they say that crypto-enabling of mail systems is easy. ]]
<div>
<div></div>
<div class="Wj3C7c"><br><br>On 26 Sep 08, at 0756, Roland Perry wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">In article <<a href="mailto:492CC2D6-7DD0-4AE3-BB1A-35EC475E19D6@batten.eu.org" target="_blank">492CC2D6-7DD0-4AE3-BB1A-35EC475E19D6@batten.eu.org</a>>, Ian Batten <<a href="mailto:igb@batten.eu.org" target="_blank">igb@batten.eu.org</a>> writes<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">It's the Poll Tax, but with no winners.<br></blockquote><br>Although if the cards announced yesterday allowed travel within the EEA (and re-entry to the UK without a passport or landing card), the holders would be "winners" to that extent.<br>
</blockquote><br></div></div>It's not easy to see how, or why, the UK government can issue travel documents over its own authority which permit non UK-citizens to travel simply on the basis that the holder is a legal resident in the UK. I'm pretty sure Schengen free-movement rules apply to citizens, not residents: does a US citizen with residence rights in France have automatic right of entry into Germany? And if they do, it's hard to think of a more convincing reason to ensure that a party that proposed that the UK joins Schengen will be committing electoral suicide.</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div>One of the consequences of Schengen is that a US citizen with residence rights in France can travel to Germany for up to three months, after which he or she needs a visa.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Here is the European Commission's explanation:</div>
<div>
<p>"If your visa is from a country fully applying the Schengen rules, it automatically allows you to travel to the other Schengen countries as well. Moreover, if you have a valid residence permit from one of those Schengen countries, it is equivalent to a visa. You may need a national visa to visit non-Schengen countries." [by 'non-Schengen countries' they mean the UK and Ireland]</p>
<p><a href="http://europa.eu/abc/travel/doc/index_en.htm">http://europa.eu/abc/travel/doc/index_en.htm</a></p></div>
<div> Mark</div></div></div>
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