BT claim Privacy International back Phorm

Ian Batten ukcrypto at chiark.greenend.org.uk
Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:05:53 +0000 

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Simon D really should make things clearer to his clients, I suggest.

http://beta.bt.com/bta/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=2612&start=255&tstart=0

George Boyce	

Posts: 4
Registered: 12/8/03
Re: BT Webwise technical trials to begin from mid-March 2008 [Q&A  
thread]
Posted: Mar 18, 2008 11:00 PM    in response to: Peter N		
  		Reply
I expect this to be moderated very quickly, but here goes anyway.
Peter N wrote:
Details are starting to emerge proving that 82/20 Thinking - after  
being paid by Phorm to scruitinise their privacy and security claims -  
did not give their approval despite BT/Phorm's attempts to imply that  
all was well. Details here courtesy of the BBC News website.

BT/Phorm previously tried to claim that they had received positive  
reports from Privacy International. They later backtracked on this  
when it was proven that the two people conducting the enquiry,  
although members of PI, where actually doing so in their capacity as  
directors of 80/20 Thinking - private organisation who were paid to  
produce the report.

Interestingly enough, Peter, they are still claiming that Privacy  
International HAVE backed them. Here is a quote from a reply I  
received today from Ben Verwaayen's office to a complaint I made about  
this whole mess.

"Clearly our customer's privacy is extremely important to us.  
Information on users browsing is completely anonymous, it doesn't  
gather personally identifiable information, doesn't store URL's, IP  
addresses or retain browsing histories and the raw data used is  
deleted in real time - by the time the page loads. Webwise does not  
scan webmail pages so your emails on Gmail, Yahoo mail or Hotmail are  
not scanned. Secure pages like your banking websites and web forms  
like any online registration or sign-up forms are not scanned. No  
personal information often contained in form fields is therefore ever  
captured by the system. No data is passed outside of BT's network.  
Webwise privacy standards have been verified by external auditor Ernst  
& Young, Privacy International has also carried out a Privacy Impact  
Assessment. Of course BT, TalkTalk and Virgin Media have all completed  
appropriate due diligence on Phorm, we also understand that other  
ISP's both in and outside of the UK are currently talking to them."

While I'm here, I should also mention what his office said about the  
cookies being planted on my PC at the start of every session, (see  
here: http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/message.jspa?messageID=14442#14442 
  and here:http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/message.jspa?messageID=14478#14478) 
.

"Let me begin by first of all confirming that the service is not  
currently live so any cookies being dropped on to your computer  
haveabsolutely nothing to do with this."

This gets me wondering... if it's not Webwise putting the cookies  
there at the start of every browsing session, who is responsible for  
these cookies in the pic below?

http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=webwisecrapbd5.jpg

I will be replying to Mr Verwaayen's representative asking for  
clarification of the Privacy International claim and asking who then  
they think is putting the cookies there, if it's not them. In the  
meantime, anyone with any thoughts on this one?

G.

Edited by: George Boyce on Mar 18, 2008 11:01 PM

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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
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"><a name=3D"14688" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 102, 204); text-decoration: =
none; "></a>Re: BT Webwise technical trials to begin from mid-March 2008 =
[Q&amp;A thread]&nbsp;</span><br><span class=3D"jive-description" =
style=3D"line-height: 1.4em; font-family: verdana, arial, sans-serif; =
font-size: 8pt; ">Posted: Mar 18, 2008 11:00 PM &nbsp;&nbsp;<nobr><a =
href=3D"http://beta.bt.com/bta/forums/message.jspa?messageID=3D14646#14646=
" title=3D"in response to: Peter N" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 102, 204); =
text-decoration: none; "><img width=3D"10" height=3D"10" border=3D"0" =
alt=3D"in response to: Peter N" title=3D"in response to: Peter N" =
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border-color: initial; " =
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response to:&nbsp;<a =
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" title=3D"Go to message" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 102, 204); =
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border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; ">&nbsp;</td><td =
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class=3D"jive-icon-label" style=3D"color: rgb(102, 102, 102); =
line-height: 1.4em; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; =
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rgb(204, 204, 204); border-right-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); =
border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-color: rgb(204, =
204, 204); border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; =
border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; padding-top: 3px; =
padding-bottom: 3px; padding-left: 3px; white-space: nowrap; =
padding-right: 1em; font-size: 8pt; font-family: verdana, arial, =
sans-serif; "><a =
href=3D"http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/secure/post!reply.jspa?messageID=
=3D14688" title=3D"Click to reply to this thread" style=3D"color: rgb(0, =
102, 204); text-decoration: none; =
">Reply</a></td></tr></tbody></table></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan=3D"4"=
 style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: verdana, lucida, arial, =
helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); line-height: 1.4em; =
padding-top: 3px; padding-right: 3px; padding-bottom: 3px; padding-left: =
3px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; =
border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); border-right-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); =
border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-color: rgb(204, =
204, 204); border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; =
border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; "><div =
class=3D"jive-message-body" style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); float: none; clear: =
none; display: block; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; =
border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: =
0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-width: =
1px; border-top-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-top-style: solid; =
padding-top: 1em; padding-bottom: 2em; overflow-x: auto; overflow-y: =
auto; ">I expect this to be moderated very quickly, but here goes =
anyway.<br><div class=3D"jive-quote" style=3D"font-family: arial, =
helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; float: none; clear: none; =
display: block; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; =
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border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-top-color: =
rgb(238, 238, 238); border-right-color: rgb(238, 238, 238); =
border-bottom-color: rgb(238, 238, 238); border-top-style: solid; =
border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; =
border-left-width: 2px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); =
border-left-style: solid; background-image: =
url(http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/images/quote-background-1.gif); =
background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; =
-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; =
background-color: initial; background-position: initial initial; "><span =
class=3D"jive-quote-header" style=3D"line-height: 1.4em; ">Peter N =
wrote:</span><div class=3D"jive-quote" style=3D"font-family: arial, =
helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; float: none; clear: none; =
display: block; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; =
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10px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 1em; margin-top: 1em; =
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rgb(51, 51, 51); font-style: italic; border-top-width: 1px; =
border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-top-color: =
rgb(238, 238, 255); border-right-color: rgb(238, 238, 255); =
border-bottom-color: rgb(238, 238, 255); border-top-style: solid; =
border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; =
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border-left-style: solid; background-image: =
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background-color: initial; background-position: initial initial; =
">Details are starting to emerge proving that 82/20 Thinking - after =
being paid by Phorm to scruitinise their privacy and security claims - =
did not give their approval despite BT/Phorm's attempts to imply that =
all was well.&nbsp;<a class=3D"jive-link-external" =
href=3D"http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7303426.stm" style=3D"color:=
 rgb(0, 102, 204); text-decoration: none; ">Details =
here</a>&nbsp;courtesy of the BBC News website.<br><br>BT/Phorm =
previously tried to claim that they had received positive reports from =
Privacy International. They later backtracked on this when it was proven =
that the two people conducting the enquiry, although members of PI, =
where actually doing so in their capacity as directors of 80/20 Thinking =
- private organisation who were paid to produce the =
report.</div></div><br>Interestingly enough, Peter, they are still =
claiming that Privacy International&nbsp;<b>HAVE</b>&nbsp;backed them. =
Here is a quote from a reply I received today from Ben Verwaayen's =
office to a complaint I made about this whole mess.<br><br>"Clearly our =
customer's privacy is extremely important to us. Information on users =
browsing is completely anonymous, it doesn't gather personally =
identifiable information, doesn't store URL's, IP addresses or retain =
browsing histories and the raw data used is deleted in real time - by =
the time the page loads. Webwise does not scan webmail pages so your =
emails on Gmail, Yahoo mail or Hotmail are not scanned. Secure pages =
like your banking websites and web forms like any online registration or =
sign-up forms are not scanned. No personal information often contained =
in form fields is therefore ever captured by the system. No data is =
passed outside of BT's network.&nbsp;<b><i>Webwise privacy standards =
have been verified by external auditor Ernst &amp; Young, Privacy =
International has also carried out a Privacy Impact =
Assessment.</i></b>&nbsp;Of course BT, TalkTalk and Virgin Media have =
all completed appropriate due diligence on Phorm, we also understand =
that other ISP's both in and outside of the UK are currently talking to =
them."<br><br>While I'm here, I should also mention what his office said =
about the cookies being planted on my PC at the start of every session, =
(see here:&nbsp;<a class=3D"jive-link-external" =
href=3D"http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/message.jspa?messageID=3D14442#1=
4442" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 102, 204); text-decoration: none; =
">http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/message.jspa?messageID=3D14442#14442</=
a>&nbsp;and here:<a class=3D"jive-link-external" =
href=3D"http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/message.jspa?messageID=3D14478#1=
4478" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 102, 204); text-decoration: none; =
">http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/message.jspa?messageID=3D14478#14478</=
a>).<br><br>"Let me begin by first of all confirming that the service is =
not currently live so any cookies being dropped on to your computer =
have<b>absolutely nothing</b>&nbsp;to do with this."<br><br>This gets me =
wondering... if it's not Webwise putting the cookies there at the start =
of every browsing session, who is responsible for these cookies in the =
pic below?<br><br><a class=3D"jive-link-external" =
href=3D"http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3Dwebwisecrapbd5.jpg" =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 102, 204); text-decoration: none; =
">http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3Dwebwisecrapbd5.jpg</a><br><br=
>I will be replying to Mr Verwaayen's representative asking for =
clarification of the Privacy International claim and asking who then =
they think is putting the cookies there, if it's not them. In the =
meantime, anyone with any thoughts on this one?<br><br>G.<br><br>Edited =
by: George Boyce on Mar 18, 2008 11:01 PM</div></td></tr><tr><td =
colspan=3D"4" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: verdana, lucida, =
arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); line-height: =
1.4em; padding-top: 3px; padding-right: 3px; padding-bottom: 3px; =
padding-left: 3px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; =
border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); border-right-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); =
border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-color: rgb(204, =
204, 204); border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; =
border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; "><table =
style=3D"border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; =
border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; "><tbody><tr><td =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: verdana, lucida, arial, =
helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); line-height: 1.4em; =
padding-top: 3px; padding-right: 3px; padding-bottom: 3px; padding-left: =
3px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; =
border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); border-right-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); =
border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-color: rgb(204, =
204, 204); border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; =
border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; =
"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></=
table></span></div></body></html>=

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