Courts and bug product

[Nicholas Bohm]

Roland Perry wrote:
> In article <47B70AB3.8010505@zen.co.uk>, Peter Fairbrother 
> <zenadsl6186@zen.co.uk> writes
> 
>>>>>  You think the end result of snooping with FS warrants is normally 
>>>>> a  court case?
>>>>
>>>> I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but no, I don't.
>>>  If FS warrants are only used for spying on spies,
>>
>> That's what I'm questioning - assuming we don't care about how many 
>> interceptions are made to catch spies, the question is and how all the 
>> "intelligence" interceptions against suspected terrorists, drug 
>> smugglers, money launderers, serious criminals, paedophiles, illegal 
>> downloaders, old Uncle Tom Cobbley and all, etc are done.
>>
>> Are they done by GCHQ, under FS warrants?
> 
> Do they have the necessary remit to do that? (Yes, of course, they have 
> the physical means to do anything, even bug MPs, but you know what I mean).
> 
>> and [if] spies are deported
>>> rather than tried, then even if the evidence could be used in court, 
>>> there aren't ever any trials.
>>
>> I thought there are lots of trials for deportation proceedings.
> 
> The spies are more accurately "expelled" [1]. Nicholas says their 
> collaborators are tried, and he's a reliable chap, but I don't recall 
> more than a handful of such trials that got reported. Maybe I should get 
> out more :)

Fuchs, Vassal, Blake, Houghton et al (Portland spy ring) (see 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_Spy_Ring - including:

"Houghton and Gee were sentenced to 15 years in prison. They were 
released in 1970 and married.

The Krogers (alias the Cohens) were sentenced to 20 years jail. In 1969 
they were exchanged for British citizen Gerald Brooke. As part of the 
process the Russians confirmed that they were actual spies.

Lonsdale, the mastermind, was sentenced to 25 years. In 1964 he was 
exchanged for British spy Greville Wynne who had been arrested in 
Russia. His real name was revealed to be Konon Trofimovich Molody.

It is believed that the ring numbered more than the five who were 
arrested in Britain, but these would have included staff at the Russian 
and Polish embassies who would have been immune to prosecution anyway.")

These are rather old now, I admit, and more recent ones may spring to 
others' minds.  There are never all that many, either because there 
aren't all that many spies to catch, or because we're not that good at 
catching them, or because we catch so many it would be upsetting to let 
too many get public.  (That latter interpretation is one for which I 
can't say there's much in the way of evidence, but I was intrigued by 
the bit about Blake in Macmillan's memoirs where he says that the news 
of his having turned out to be a double agent was news he wished he had 
not had.  Macmillan was a master of ambiguity, leaving one to wonder 
whether this was his way of saying what a pity it was Blake had been a 
spy, or his way of saying he wished someone had quietly put a bullet in 
his head without telling the Prime Minister and making such a solution 
impossible.  Macmillan was certainly more ruthless than he liked to 
appear, as his non-successor Butler would have testified.)

> [1] There seems to be some scheme along the lines of "We know you know 
> that it's a fair cop, so leave. Now."

You declare them persona non grata, and they have to leave.  You try to 
persuade their masters that it was fair, with a view to limiting the 
number of tits for tat.

Nicholas
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