cleanfeed and wikipedia

[Ian Batten]

On 10 Dec 08, at 2339, David Hansen wrote:

> On 10 Dec 2008 at 21:06, Roland Perry wrote:
>
>>> "Child sexual abuse" "the gravity of the images we deal with. They  
>>> are
>>> also commonly referred to as: Child Pornography, Child Porn, Child
>>> Porno and Kiddie Porn." - there is none of that in the photograph.
>>
>> It's abusive to think that a child of that age can give the necessary
>> consent.
>
> I wondered if and when I would be accused of being a child abuser in
> this thread.

This all runs around in circles.  If something doesn't upset a child  
but another adult thinks it should, do we have an obligation to  
retrospectively upset the child?  This is the accusation raised about  
`counselling' children who have been subjected to traumatic events:  
that they are not sufficiently upset is seen as evidence that they  
need to relive the experience so that they can obtain closure or  
somesuch.  This is the stuff of scientology, not science.

What harm befalls someone who does something that didn't upset them at  
the nor, nor in retrospect?  Saying that they should have been upset  
helps no-one.

And on the cosmic scale of parents getting their children to do things  
that are bad for them, this hardly figures.  My daughters have, fairly  
casually, sung in the offstage choir for Birmingham Royal Ballet  
productions of The Nutcracker.  That means that while hanging around  
at the stage door I've seen girls (and boys, although they seem far  
more grounded) who are dancing in the child roles.  Aside from the  
parental push required to get ten year olds to the standard involved  
in performing in one of the country's leading ballet companies, a good  
proportion of those children are destined for bitter disappointment  
depending on how puberty works out.   Is this abuse?  I'd suspect that  
the net present value of pain is far higher than appearing in a  
tasteless photograph.

What about sport?  Are parents who encourage/push (delete to taste)  
their children in football, athletics or (probably the most time- 
consuming for the child) swimming abusive?  Large amounts of time, a  
lot of physical demand, health risks, a strong chance of traumatic  
disappointment if puberty doesn't work out.  Women who play tennis  
being on bad terms with their semi-abusive fathers is hardly uncommon.

Music?  Seen the sacrifices involved on all parts in getting children  
through higher-level exams?  I know kids who can't do anything at the  
weekends because they're playing for eight and ten hours.  Hell,  
plenty of people would say my kids spend too much time involved in  
music, although in my defence my wife and I spend a lot of our time  
trying to _discourage_ them.   But to get to Grade V on two disjoint  
instruments by 12, or Grade III on three instruments from two families  
by 10, doesn't happen by magic, and there's been the odd row.

The girl on the Scorpions cover is (it would appear) on good terms  
with her family.  Vanessa Mae isn't.  Who's being abused?

ian