FW: [Apc-euroir-ws] "RIP Act" could result in massive surveillance -- BBC

[Caspar Bowden]

> Richard Clayton
>> Bowden <cb@fipr.org> writes
...
> >There seems to me to be a puzzle about how S.8(4) warrants are to be=20
> >implemented. These are the ECHELON warrants for=20
> mass-trawling...by issuing a S.12 order to require the ISP to be=20
> capable of=20
> >either (a) filtering the entire flow of data against=20
> keywords [etc.] or (b) piping the whole lot to Cheltenham.
>=20
> why ?

Sorry bad phrasing. The ISP doesn't HAVE to do it, but S.12 can require
installation of kit which can assist execution of either type of
warrant.

> >Can ISPs neatly separate external and domestic traffic and just hand=20
> >over just stuff "sent or received" outside UK ?
> >
> >I don't think so.
>=20
> There are ASs that span country boundaries, but in general=20
> you CAN look at IP addresses and know if the packets are=20
> going abroad or not.

...but to do that you have to look at every packet anyway - so it's darn
expensive

> I suspect that if you use a HotMail account to write to your=20
> next door neighbour then the judge=20

Judge ? The Interception Commissioner is going to tell us this is he?
Wish he'd get on with it.

> is going to rule that=20
> there were two communications, each of which had one end in=20
> the USA.

This difference is pretty important.

> So in general, just look at the IP address and that=20
> gives you the country.

Can't be bothered to look up but this interpretation is not what ISTR
(previous) RIP Pt.I official told me last year. Think it's in Lords
Hansard somewhere.

> >Is the real=20
> >story whether/how/why/when ISPs will have to implement 8(4)=20
> >warrants ?
>=20
> ISPs pass their traffic over telco wires, which are=20
> agglomerated into a small number of physical cables. If=20
> you've got the mythical kit=20

So you don't think GCHQ doesn't/isn't planning to have that ability ? So
what was Bassam talking about ?

> that can filter out very high=20
> speed IP level traffic, why would you wish to intercept=20
> within <n> ISPs rather than do them all at the telco level?

Because in terms of actual price/performance a humungous switch/filter
which can keep up with the bleeding edge of international cable
bandwidth always will cost much more than ten times the cost of switches
which can filter at a tenth of that bandwidth (a commodity). ISP
black-boxes are the "grid" of GCHQ's future parallelisation.

--
Caspar =
Bowden=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0 www.fipr.org
Director, Foundation for Information Policy Research
Tel: +44(0)20 7354 2333=20