Charles Clarke's explanation of RIP related matters in the HC

[Yaman Akdeniz]

This is all interesting but more importantly Clarke states that "The third 
is to make more explicit in the Bill the fact that we are principally 
requiring plain text rather than any encryption key in order to get the 
data that we want, about which there has been some concern."

Yaman

Monday 26 June 2000, Hansard, Oral Questions and Debates

Regulation of Investigatory Powers Bill
8. Mr. John M. Taylor (Solihull): What estimate he has made of the 
cost to internet service providers of complying with the provisions of 
the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Bill. [126126] 

The Minister of State, Home Office (Mr. Charles Clarke): The 
Government have estimated that the cost to internet service providers 
of complying with the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Bill will not 
exceed £20 million in aggregate over the first four years' operation. I 
am satisfied that the requirements that we have in mind will be 
consistent with comparable countries. I should also draw to the hon. 
Gentleman's attention the fact that Parliament will have a further 
chance to scrutinise the detailed technical proposals before the 
requirements come into force and before any costs are incurred. 

Mr. Taylor: What does the Minister have to say in response to the 
British Chambers of Commerce report that the Bill will cost the 
economy £46 billion? [Laughter.] Yes, £46 billion. Will he give an 
outright commitment that the Bill will not drive British business out of 
the United Kingdom? 

Mr. Clarke: My short answer is that that is total nonsense, as I have 
told the British Chambers of 

26 Jun 2000 : Column 652

Commerce. I point out to the hon. Gentleman that on our website, we 
go through the BCC figures; they are nonsense. We also do not 
accept the charge that e-commerce will be driven out of the country, 
although I emphasise that we have entered very close dialogue with 
the industry to try to ensure full agreement. A requirement for the Act 
to work effectively will be close working with business. We are 
extremely conscious of that at every level. 

Mr. Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston): Does my hon. 
Friend agree that people who oppose the Bill are playing right into the 
hands of some of the most evil criminals on this planet? Are not 
charges already imposed in countries such as the United States, 
Canada, Australia, Sweden and France for internet service providers 
in this field? 

Mr. Clarke: I half agree with my hon. Friend. He is right to identify the 
benefits to crime of the way in which the internet can operate and we 
need to contest it. Examples of his point are clear. In 1996-97, 
through using such surveillance, there were 1,200 arrests, and the 
seizure of drugs with a street value of more than £600 million and of 
more than 450 firearms. I only half agree with him because although 
some people are motivated in the way that he described, some are 
partners in dialogue--I mentioned business in this context--who are 
worried about the process, and it is incumbent on us as a Government 
to work closely with them. I do not impugn their motives, although I 
impugn the motives of some of those who have made some of the 
arguments. 

Jackie Ballard (Taunton): Given the worries about which the Minister 
has just spoken, and the increasing concerns of Members of both 
Houses of Parliament and ordinary, law-abiding citizens who use the 
internet, will he tell us what changes he intends to make to the Bill? 

Mr. Clarke: We are looking at two or three specific changes. The first 
is to make explicit issues on cost, of the kind with which I dealt in 
answer to the hon. Member for Solihull (Mr. Taylor). The second is 
to consider definitions of certain aspects of collection of 
communications data about which questions have been raised. My 
noble Friend the Under-Secretary commented on that last week. The 
third is to make more explicit in the Bill the fact that we are principally 
requiring plain text rather than any encryption key in order to get the 
data that we want, about which there has been some concern. A 
number of those points will arise during the third day's consideration 
of the Bill in Committee in the other place. 


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Mr. Yaman Akdeniz,
Director, Cyber-Rights & Cyber-Liberties (UK)
URL: http://www.cyber-rights.org
E-mail: lawya@cyber-rights.org
Tel: +44 (0)498 865116

Read the CR&CL (UK) Reports at:
http://www.cyber-rights.org/reports/ 
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