From lists at alcopop.org Sat Sep 1 11:01:06 2007 From: lists at alcopop.org (Jon Dowland) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 11:01:06 +0100 Subject: [Debian-uk] cambridge this evening Message-ID: <20070901100106.GA7660@alcopop.org> Hi all, I'm travelling to Cambridge today for the Linuxconf 2007 starting on sunday morning, and I'll be at a loose end on Saturday from about 7pm onwards. Is anyone around for some grub and/or a drink or two? :-) -- Jon Dowland From steve at einval.com Tue Sep 4 14:58:18 2007 From: steve at einval.com (Steve McIntyre) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 14:58:18 +0100 Subject: [Debian-uk] Free books! Message-ID: <20070904135818.GD31492@einval.com> Niall Mansfield from UIT bumped into me at the Linux conference in Cambridge this week and has kindly given me 2 copies of the new 2nd edition of the Exim book "The Exim SMTP Mail Server". He'd like me to pass these on to deserving folks who may find them useful. Any nominations? [1] http://www.uit.co.uk/exim-book -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@einval.com Armed with "Valor": "Centurion" represents quality of Discipline, Honor, Integrity and Loyalty. Now you don't have to be a Caesar to concord the digital world while feeling safe and proud. From steve at lobefin.net Tue Sep 4 15:10:23 2007 From: steve at lobefin.net (Stephen Gran) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 15:10:23 +0100 Subject: [Debian-uk] Free books! In-Reply-To: <20070904135818.GD31492@einval.com> References: <20070904135818.GD31492@einval.com> Message-ID: <20070904141023.GA24209@www.lobefin.net> --1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 02:58:18PM +0100, Steve McIntyre said: > Niall Mansfield from UIT bumped into me at the Linux conference in > Cambridge this week and has kindly given me 2 copies of the new 2nd > edition of the Exim book "The Exim SMTP Mail Server". He'd like me to > pass these on to deserving folks who may find them useful. Any > nominations? If you send one to Mark Hymers, I can get my copy back from him :) --=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Stephen Gran | A day without sunshine is like night. | | steve@lobefin.net | | | http://www.lobefin.net/~steve | | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- --1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFG3WdPSYIMHOpZA44RAjSBAKCPk4xtgdnE+/MFiUfvjyuYlqxB9QCgyvoW 71mGKGlGdvuTjwRSixxOLTk= =x4qr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7-- From david at planetwatson.co.uk Tue Sep 4 16:10:58 2007 From: david at planetwatson.co.uk (David Watson) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 16:10:58 +0100 Subject: [Debian-uk] Free books! In-Reply-To: <20070904135818.GD31492@einval.com> References: <20070904135818.GD31492@einval.com> Message-ID: <20070904151058.GA19585@planetwatson.co.uk> --VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable * Steve McIntyre (steve@einval.com) wrote: > Niall Mansfield from UIT bumped into me at the Linux conference in > Cambridge this week and has kindly given me 2 copies of the new 2nd > edition of the Exim book "The Exim SMTP Mail Server". He'd like me to > pass these on to deserving folks who may find them useful. Any > nominations? >=20 > [1] http://www.uit.co.uk/exim-book >=20 Is it wrong to nominate myself? --=20 David Watson (GPG Key ID: A7D6AE79) Lugmaster, Programmer, Bass Player http://planetwatson.co.uk/blog http://liverpool.lug.org.uk IM(Jabber): dwatson@planetwatson.co.uk --VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFG3XWCDeh5nqfWrnkRAjQiAJ4yjm0UkL9b2ALRBS89xrDRjijzLACghjJP J37U/pSCxT0LeJ5itBnWSMI= =MMtd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J-- From chris at chris-lamb.co.uk Wed Sep 5 02:24:28 2007 From: chris at chris-lamb.co.uk (Chris Lamb) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 02:24:28 +0100 Subject: [Debian-uk] Free books! In-Reply-To: <20070904141023.GA24209@www.lobefin.net> References: <20070904135818.GD31492@einval.com> <20070904141023.GA24209@www.lobefin.net> Message-ID: <20070905022428.2efaa625@localhost.localdomain> --Sig_FA14GTjdIc86DKzYSFfm6ez Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stephen Gran wrote: > On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 02:58:18PM +0100, Steve McIntyre said: > > Niall Mansfield from UIT bumped into me at the Linux conference in > > Cambridge this week and has kindly given me 2 copies of the new 2nd > > edition of the Exim book > If you send one to Mark Hymers, I can get my copy back from him :) If you weren't being serious, can I nominate myself too? I have a truly marvellous justification (involving a realisation that a viola-playing Philip I knew a long time ago was in-fact the Philip of Exim fame) which this mail message is too narrow to contain. Regards, /Lamby --=20 Chris Lamb, Cambridgeshire, UK GPG: 0x634F9A20 --Sig_FA14GTjdIc86DKzYSFfm6ez Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFG3gVP5/8uW2NPmiARAsKHAJ9t9zp0/yGtmPtx0pj3lzWuuybzXACgo3i3 534w2bYNVdqPWhh00Uxf4kc= =5X+a -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_FA14GTjdIc86DKzYSFfm6ez-- From david at planetwatson.co.uk Wed Sep 5 09:09:16 2007 From: david at planetwatson.co.uk (David Watson) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 09:09:16 +0100 Subject: [Debian-uk] Free books! In-Reply-To: <20070904151058.GA19585@planetwatson.co.uk> References: <20070904135818.GD31492@einval.com> <20070904151058.GA19585@planetwatson.co.uk> Message-ID: <20070905080916.GA7509@planetwatson.co.uk> --/9DWx/yDrRhgMJTb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable * David Watson (david@planetwatson.co.uk) wrote: > * Steve McIntyre (steve@einval.com) wrote: > > Niall Mansfield from UIT bumped into me at the Linux conference in > > Cambridge this week and has kindly given me 2 copies of the new 2nd > > edition of the Exim book "The Exim SMTP Mail Server". He'd like me to > > pass these on to deserving folks who may find them useful. Any > > nominations? > >=20 > > [1] http://www.uit.co.uk/exim-book > >=20 >=20 > Is it wrong to nominate myself? Steve asked me to justify my nomination, so here goes. What would I use this book for? Firstly to beat the several exim installations I manage (at home and at wor= k) into submission=20 (providing the book is heavy enough). After that it would also prove useful with a piece of software I write called geximon[0] (a gnome replacement for eximon). I am also working with some others on getting an exim web interfa= ce packaged called vexim[1], or at least I'll get back to it once I have finis= hed my java assignment. :( [0] http://geximon.planetwatson.co.uk [1] http://silverwraith.com/vexim/ --=20 David Watson (GPG Key ID: A7D6AE79) Lugmaster, Programmer, Bass Player http://planetwatson.co.uk/blog http://liverpool.lug.org.uk IM(Jabber): dwatson@planetwatson.co.uk --/9DWx/yDrRhgMJTb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFG3mQsDeh5nqfWrnkRAn2+AKCs+JV+tSrvr5r6CzGEVD1q1Zaw6ACeP4Gc 4aMkwS7c8f84E50/Q+iHAdE= =mf45 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --/9DWx/yDrRhgMJTb-- From steve at einval.com Mon Sep 10 23:57:01 2007 From: steve at einval.com (Steve McIntyre) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 23:57:01 +0100 Subject: [Debian-uk] Free books! In-Reply-To: <20070905080916.GA7509@planetwatson.co.uk> References: <20070904135818.GD31492@einval.com> <20070904151058.GA19585@planetwatson.co.uk> <20070905080916.GA7509@planetwatson.co.uk> Message-ID: <20070910225701.GN29259@einval.com> On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 09:09:16AM +0100, David Watson wrote: >* David Watson (david@planetwatson.co.uk) wrote: >> * Steve McIntyre (steve@einval.com) wrote: >> > Niall Mansfield from UIT bumped into me at the Linux conference in >> > Cambridge this week and has kindly given me 2 copies of the new 2nd >> > edition of the Exim book "The Exim SMTP Mail Server". He'd like me to >> > pass these on to deserving folks who may find them useful. Any >> > nominations? >> > >> > [1] http://www.uit.co.uk/exim-book >> > >> >> Is it wrong to nominate myself? > >Steve asked me to justify my nomination, so here goes. > >What would I use this book for? > >Firstly to beat the several exim installations I manage (at home and at work) into submission >(providing the book is heavy enough). After that it would also prove useful >with a piece of software I write called geximon[0] (a gnome replacement for >eximon). I am also working with some others on getting an exim web interface >packaged called vexim[1], or at least I'll get back to it once I have finished >my java assignment. :( Sounds good to me! I'll pass on one of the copies to you, hopefully next time I'm up north again in a month or so if that works for you. -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@einval.com Getting a SCSI chain working is perfectly simple if you remember that there must be exactly three terminations: one on one end of the cable, one on the far end, and the goat, terminated over the SCSI chain with a silver-handled knife whilst burning *black* candles. --- Anthony DeBoer From steve at lobefin.net Tue Sep 11 10:25:44 2007 From: steve at lobefin.net (Stephen Gran) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:25:44 +0100 Subject: [Debian-uk] Free books! In-Reply-To: <20070904141023.GA24209@www.lobefin.net> References: <20070904135818.GD31492@einval.com> <20070904141023.GA24209@www.lobefin.net> Message-ID: <20070911092544.GA6827@www.lobefin.net> --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 03:10:23PM +0100, Stephen Gran said: > On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 02:58:18PM +0100, Steve McIntyre said: > > Niall Mansfield from UIT bumped into me at the Linux conference in > > Cambridge this week and has kindly given me 2 copies of the new 2nd > > edition of the Exim book "The Exim SMTP Mail Server". He'd like me to > > pass these on to deserving folks who may find them useful. Any > > nominations? >=20 > If you send one to Mark Hymers, I can get my copy back from him :) Steve asked me for a little more justification than that one line, oddly, so here goes: At my dayjob, I'm a sysadmin for bunches of machines on various networks, and quite a few of them are mailservers. We use exim by preference for our MX's, and while the online documentation is quite good, having a dead tree reference handy for flipping through is something I always find useful. Thanks again, Steve, --=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Stephen Gran | "If you don't want your dog to have bad | | steve@lobefin.net | breath, do what I do: Pour a little | | http://www.lobefin.net/~steve | Lavoris in the toilet." -- Comedian | | | Jay Leno | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFG5l8YSYIMHOpZA44RAq/LAKChVLq7e2Jma4v3MNmCu5h0DPysUgCZATv8 rZucOCxyKYxs7FmRLAQ+GhA= =mVNV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh-- From steve at einval.com Tue Sep 18 12:05:41 2007 From: steve at einval.com (Steve McIntyre) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:05:41 +0100 Subject: [Debian-uk] Debian training? Message-ID: <20070918110541.GA11571@einval.com> This may sound silly, but here goes... :-) At my company, we're starting to move all of our developer / QA workstations to Debian. In the past we've had a mix of distros in use, covering old RH, Fedora, Suse, Gentoo, Ubuntu, etc. I've been a large part of the decision to move over to Debian, and it's working quite well. We've got some local packages built and we're using simple preseeding to make installing new machines *really* easy. However, my boss is not so happy that I'm the only person who really understands how it all works. In general, people are coping just fine with Debian day-to-day and we're not having many issues. However, if anything comes up out of the ordinary (obscure bugs, or a need to build / rebuild one of our local packages) then people are coming to me for help. As I'm meant to be developing rather than providing IT support, this is not ideal. So, what we're looking for is somebody to provide some training for us, probably on-site at our offices just outside Cambridge. We have 2 distinct groups of people: 1. Developers who mainly have a fair amount of experience running Linux and developing for Linux, but often from other distros. They basically just don't know Debian and a half-day (or so) course on the finer points of Debian would be useful (e.g. hardware configuration, network configuration, finding and installing packages, filing bugs). 2. Admins who already know a fair amount about running and installing Linux, but not Debian. A deeper introduction to packaging, preseeding and management in general is what they need. Ideally they'll then be able to support the people in (1) for most things. So, can anybody help us or give recommendations? Thanks, -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@einval.com Support the Campaign for Audiovisual Free Expression: http://www.eff.org/cafe/ From codehelp at debian.org Wed Sep 19 17:17:51 2007 From: codehelp at debian.org (Neil Williams) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:17:51 +0100 Subject: [Debian-uk] LinxWorld Expo postponed? Message-ID: <20070919171751.41fbd1a1.codehelp@debian.org> --Signature=_Wed__19_Sep_2007_17_17_51_+0100_Pm7Akq/MFeHwuImd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.linuxworldexpo.co.uk/ > LinuxWorld Conference & Expo London 2007 is Postponed >=20 > It is with regret that we must announce that LinuxWorld Conference & > Expo London 2007 has been postponed until spring 2008. Did anyone else know about this? I was all set to register for my ticket . . . :-( --=20 Neil Williams =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D http://www.data-freedom.org/ http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/ http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/ --Signature=_Wed__19_Sep_2007_17_17_51_+0100_Pm7Akq/MFeHwuImd Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFG8UuviAEJSii8s+MRAmRfAKDGuMmhk+4ldnMm7Rpj84FPpwu1RwCfe6bY QXDUUvj4/OsrkgX4yzz/Osk= =1PUV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Signature=_Wed__19_Sep_2007_17_17_51_+0100_Pm7Akq/MFeHwuImd-- From linux at codehelp.co.uk Wed Sep 19 19:48:23 2007 From: linux at codehelp.co.uk (Neil Williams) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 19:48:23 +0100 Subject: [Debian-uk] LinxWorld Expo postponed? Message-ID: <20070919194823.ae64b0f1.linux@codehelp.co.uk> --Signature=_Wed__19_Sep_2007_19_48_23_+0100_PcG/GzKzC/r=AG+C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.linuxworldexpo.co.uk/ > LinuxWorld Conference & Expo London 2007 is Postponed >=20 > It is with regret that we must announce that LinuxWorld Conference & > Expo London 2007 has been postponed until spring 2008. Did anyone else know about this? I was all set to register for my ticket . . . :-( --=20 Neil Williams =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D http://www.data-freedom.org/ http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/ http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/ --Signature=_Wed__19_Sep_2007_19_48_23_+0100_PcG/GzKzC/r=AG+C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFG8W75iAEJSii8s+MRAtP9AKCyI56VTImAVGrZlD5nT5y/4W3HwQCgmNar h8j2CUFbj1/k+ITm1WWoSH0= =UyN9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Signature=_Wed__19_Sep_2007_19_48_23_+0100_PcG/GzKzC/r=AG+C-- From steve at einval.com Mon Sep 24 23:48:40 2007 From: steve at einval.com (Steve McIntyre) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 23:48:40 +0100 Subject: [Debian-uk] LinxWorld Expo postponed? In-Reply-To: <20070919194823.ae64b0f1.linux@codehelp.co.uk> References: <20070919194823.ae64b0f1.linux@codehelp.co.uk> Message-ID: <20070924224840.GJ4994@einval.com> On Wed, Sep 19, 2007 at 07:48:23PM +0100, Neil Williams wrote: >http://www.linuxworldexpo.co.uk/ > >> LinuxWorld Conference & Expo London 2007 is Postponed >> >> It is with regret that we must announce that LinuxWorld Conference & >> Expo London 2007 has been postponed until spring 2008. > >Did anyone else know about this? > >I was all set to register for my ticket . . . >:-( The organisers weren't as obvious as they might have been in publicising this, no. I heard about it a few weeks back, but neglected to forawrd the news on. Sorry... :-( -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@einval.com "Further comment on how I feel about IBM will appear once I've worked out whether they're being malicious or incompetent. Capital letters are forecast." Matthew Garrett, http://www.livejournal.com/users/mjg59/30675.html From jurzik at guug.de Sat Sep 29 11:38:31 2007 From: jurzik at guug.de (Heike Jurzik) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:38:31 +0200 Subject: [Debian-uk] Travel in the UK -- infos/help needed, please Message-ID: <20070929103831.GA28547@lst.de> Hi everyone, I need to be in Manchester on Sunday, 7th of October, around lunch time. There is no direct flight from Koeln/Bonn airport that arrives in time, unfortunately. :( I'm looking for help, recommendations, maybe crash space in the wider area, ideally Manchester or Liverpool. Alternatively, I'm brave enough to try the British railway system again from somewhere else that's close. Anyone around who can help me with that? Cheers, Heike -- A boot splash makes as much sense as dancing shoes or cut flowers. (S. Luetje) From jurzik at guug.de Sat Sep 29 13:22:32 2007 From: jurzik at guug.de (Heike Jurzik) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 14:22:32 +0200 Subject: [Debian-uk] Travel in the UK -- infos/help needed, please In-Reply-To: <46FE3FDD.8010000@manchester.ac.uk> References: <20070929103831.GA28547@lst.de> <46FE3FDD.8010000@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20070929122232.GA398@lst.de> On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 01:06:53PM +0100, Bruno Harbulot wrote: > Have you tried to fly from Düsseldorf or maybe Frankfurt? I went to Bonn > once, using a flight via Düsseldorf, and then the train (not even ICE as > far as I remember). It was very efficient: it took me less than 2 hours > from the time the wheels of the plane touched the ground to the time I > was in my hotel room in Bonn. > There seems to be a Lufthansa flight at 9:30 from DUS to MAN... It's not > cheap, though (I've only checked on expedia.co.uk). Yes, those are all not the cheapest options. :( I don't want to spend too much money on the flights, so I guess if anyone could offer crash space in Manchester or close that would be great. That way I could fly in Friday night with TUIfly or something like that. Thanks for the ideas, Heike -- A boot splash makes as much sense as dancing shoes or cut flowers. (S. Luetje) From jurzik at guug.de Sat Sep 29 17:01:36 2007 From: jurzik at guug.de (Heike Jurzik) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 18:01:36 +0200 Subject: Problem solved (was: Re: [Debian-uk] Travel in the UK -- infos/help needed, please) In-Reply-To: <20070929103831.GA28547@lst.de> References: <20070929103831.GA28547@lst.de> Message-ID: <20070929160136.GB398@lst.de> On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 12:38:31PM +0200, Heike Jurzik wrote: > Anyone around who can help me with that? Problem solved and all sorted. I'm staying in Cambridge for the night and getting a lift up north with a friend of mine. Thanks to everyone who replied here and on IRC, Heike -- A boot splash makes as much sense as dancing shoes or cut flowers. (S. Luetje) From jurzik at guug.de Sat Sep 29 17:15:55 2007 From: jurzik at guug.de (Heike Jurzik) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 18:15:55 +0200 Subject: Problem solved (was: Re: [Debian-uk] Travel in the UK -- infos/help needed, please) In-Reply-To: <20070929161047.GA6332@thinkpad.nowster.org.uk> References: <20070929103831.GA28547@lst.de> <20070929160136.GB398@lst.de> <20070929161047.GA6332@thinkpad.nowster.org.uk> Message-ID: <20070929161555.GC398@lst.de> On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 05:10:48PM +0100, Paul Martin wrote: > Whereabouts in Manchester are you going? Some keysigning may be > possible. I don't think there will be time for that, I'm afraid. :( I will be playing with Heather Dale and Ben Deschamps (http://www.heatherdale.com/shows/) and am not sure how many gigs on the Sunday (it could be two, I don't know yet). I don't know either, if we're staying for the night or head straight up to Durham after that. If anyone on the list fancies Celtic Folk music, have a look at the tour dates and go and see a show. It's great music (sound samples on the website) and you're likely to see a mad German fiddler with a Debian shirt on stage ;) Cheers, Heike -- A boot splash makes as much sense as dancing shoes or cut flowers. (S. Luetje) From mjr at phonecoop.coop Sat Sep 29 13:41:21 2007 From: mjr at phonecoop.coop (MJ Ray) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 13:41:21 +0100 Subject: [Debian-uk] Travel in the UK -- infos/help needed, please In-Reply-To: <20070929103831.GA28547@lst.de> References: <20070929103831.GA28547@lst.de> Message-ID: <46fe47f1.0upmXSiGo/1ygTnE%mjr@phonecoop.coop> Heike Jurzik wrote: > I need to be in Manchester on Sunday, 7th of October, around lunch time. > There is no direct flight from Koeln/Bonn airport that arrives in time, [...] Sunday mornings always seems to be hard to find flights to/from Germany. > Alternatively, > I'm brave enough to try the British railway system again from somewhere > else that's close. Anyone around who can help me with that? At a guess, Cologne->Brussels->London on Saturday night, http://www.seat61.com/Germany.htm#Cologne stop over in/near London, http://www.superbreak.com/discounted-hotels/offers-category-LO.htm or similar, then London->Manchester on Sunday morning. http://www.traintimes.org.uk (pick Chiltern or G.Western as retailer to avoid a booking fee and tell it you'll collect from a FastTicket printer at the London station). Hope that helps, -- MJ Ray http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html tel:+44-844-4437-237 - Webmaster-developer, statistician, sysadmin, online shop builder, consumer and workers co-operative member http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ - Writing on koha, debian, sat TV, Kewstoke http://mjr.towers.org.uk/