Survivors of GR, please show that you're alive and kicking!

Thorsten Glaser t.glaser at
Sat Jan 11 19:08:09 GMT 2020

On Fri, 10 Jan 2020, Lorenz wrote:

> Anyway this radio-silence on the list, with the only message beeing
> Dmitry's retirement, is becoming creepy and discouraging.

There were others on another list.

I replied to someone:

>>>What gives me hope, and fear, is that a full third wanted to make support
>>>for alternatives mandatory, even though it could be more work. Hope because
>>>maybe people will recognize this sizable minority, and continue to support
>>Wishful thinking, see #944748 (I even offered to contribute and in the
>>case of, for example #925473 before that, even maintain init scripts.
>>>I hope you reconsider leaving the project.
>>I once was in the position to and did reconsider.
>>However, I’m now *extremely* wary of how much effort I will have to put
>>into local packages (as maintainers are now allowed to reject sysvinit
>>support, which other options would have prevented) and am considering
>>dropping Debian… maybe it’s time to switch to OpenBSD at $dayjob…
>>… I’ll miss parts of the community and great QA though. And of course,
>>not every use case can be fulfilled with it ☹ or only at time cost.

I’ll let this stand here.

On Fri, 10 Jan 2020, Lorenz wrote:

> Things are moving fast, I believe that standardizing over sysuser.d and
> tmpfiles.d is already a fact in Debian, while DynamicUsers and Timers are
> also on the table.

The sysusersd thing in tomcat9 fucks me off.

> Some action is needed to mitigate the effect of this wave now and keep open
> the space for some kind of alternative, at least downstream (Devuan).

I have precisely zero interest in Devuan (lack of known/skilled developers,
except for two names which are known from Debian; lack of QA; lack of ports
architectures; likelihood of it surviving a sysvinit support drop in Debian
are approaching 0, and I prefer to work upstream, and would prefer to work
where people could use my things with either init system).

> Are DDs and other contributor in this list still active or they are giving up?

Pretty much fucked up and considering giving up, given the nftables maintainer
rejecting even a contributed sysvinit script *prior to* the GR (when this was
a MUST in Policy) already, and the sysusers thing, and the outcome (as diziet
wrote, maintainers can now legally block this).

At least, very, VERY wary of how things will proceed now.

«MyISAM tables -will- get corrupted eventually. This is a fact of life. »
“mysql is about as much database as ms access” – “MSSQL at least descends
from a database” “it's a rebranded SyBase” “MySQL however was born from a
flatfile and went downhill from there” – “at least jetDB doesn’t claim to
be a database”	(#nosec)    ‣‣‣ Please let MySQL and MariaDB finally die!

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